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Old 3rd July 2007, 03:47 AM
Wish Fulfillment Wish Fulfillment is offline
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Is gaining a sin? (for Christians)

Lately, I've wondering if gaining is a sin. It's something I enjoy doing, but I've been having doubts about it and I don't really know what to do.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 03:58 AM
erik13 erik13 is offline
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Well, gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, so it I guess gaining is technically a sin. That is unless you gain by eating a normal amount of food and being extremely inactive.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 04:37 AM
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Actually, gluttony is eating out of greed. Basically if you eat everything you can just because its your food and you want as much as possible just because you think you deserve it. I look at gaining more like bodybuilding. Sure it not really to get healthier, but its about changing your body image to something you're happy with. Gluttony is considered a sin, gaining is not.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 04:48 AM
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GLUTTON

A selfish, greedy person given to excessive indulgence, especially voracious eating.
That's how my religion views it, but now that I look at it, it is vague enough to include gaining. I just always think that the motive for the person is greed and selfish indulgence, and thats not why I eat alot. OH well, I was planning stopping anyhow. I'm just getting really sick of getting out of breath all the time and not being able to do things easily.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 05:23 AM
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buy more product buy more product is offline
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It's focus on the flesh and the self, both of which are incompatible with a christian point of view. Especially since it becomes sexual--it's a fetish, and it's a totally self-centered one. Christianity and gaining, or anything like it, are incompatible.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 02:33 PM
Khato Khato is offline
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Remember that most religions have mandated texts that make everything a sin and make a certain group of people the ideal. The texts were also written at a time when the human population was much, much smaller and people were frailer and died easily. :P

Gluttony = less food for other people in that case, as people had to toil in the fields just to feed themselves. But in our society, most food goes to waste. Religion states that needlessly wasting [the] god[s']'s gifts is bad, right? So which is worse?

Wasting the food, or consuming it? I'd say wasting it. Since we have an abundance of consumables, we don't have to worry about depriving other people of sustenance. Thus, gluttony in this case would be completely justified by avoiding another sin, that of wastage. And don't you give me stuff about third world countries - the food would spoil, and it would be inefficient to cart a lot of food to other countries without the means to pay for it. That is a completely different problem.

And so, in conclusion, you are merely enjoying the fruits of the earth as god intended, though in larger quantities, in order to prevent more waste. The intent is still there, though as society in general has changed, you must look at the texts in a different context - why follow archaic rules made for a different social structure when half of it isn't relevant?

Man, I am SO loophole-finding guy.
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Old 4th July 2007, 02:26 AM
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That's not a loophole, that's a detour in the opposite direction. The point at which it becomes sinful is the self-centeredness and physical-centeredness of it. The waste argument is irrelevant to this point. It's just not in keeping with a legitimate christian mindset.

Of course, people willing to go the whole nine yards and take the entire system to heart are in for some major lifestyle changes. I think the point here, Wish Fulfillment, is that the question is irrelevant. Nobody in their right mind would be willing to participate wholeheartedly in the total system--resignation of property, asceticism, celibacy or reproductive matrimony, etc.--and if you don't participate in the total system, you undermine the basis of the religion. If you're unwilling, for instance, to resign all of your property and live completely immersed in a religious mindset, as christ commanded, then you're willing to make a buffet-like selection of doctrine for yourself. And if this is the case, then you are in a position to cheerfully answer your own question: "No, gaining isn't a sin. Why? Because I don't want it to be, and that's my christianity."

N.b. Scriptural references are not forthcoming. The points I cited exist in the gospels and Paul's letters, but, being non-religious myself, I can't say where.
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Old 4th July 2007, 03:40 PM
Khato Khato is offline
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I admit that I went off topic there, but I know I had a point in there. It probably was: "What's the lesser of the two evils?" I just kinda got carried away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buy more product View Post
Of course, people willing to go the whole nine yards and take the entire system to heart are in for some major lifestyle changes. I think the point here, Wish Fulfillment, is that the question is irrelevant. Nobody in their right mind would be willing to participate wholeheartedly in the total system--resignation of property, asceticism, celibacy or reproductive matrimony, etc.--and if you don't participate in the total system, you undermine the basis of the religion. If you're unwilling, for instance, to resign all of your property and live completely immersed in a religious mindset, as christ commanded, then you're willing to make a buffet-like selection of doctrine for yourself. And if this is the case, then you are in a position to cheerfully answer your own question: "No, gaining isn't a sin. Why? Because I don't want it to be, and that's my christianity."
I concur! But... is it possible for anyone to participate wholeheartedly? If not, what's the point in this black-and-white religion? If we sin, we go to hell, if we are pious, we go to heaven. If focusing on our self is sinful, then even the most pious guys are going to go to hell.

And you know why? Because we are coerced to do good, to be faithful, to be religious. We are constantly bombarded with the notion that we will burn forever in the firey pits of hell* if we are not following a doctrine created thousands of years ago for a civilisation that is wholly different to ours. That makes people follow. And what's this? You go to heaven if you follow our book? That's a reward, right there - and the only reason we do it is because we are promised eternal bliss next to our almighty creator.

Having a selfish reason to do good has the same overt effects, but not the same intent. It's lip service. Ergo, pious men go to hell because they believe they will be rewarded, and so act selfishly. Surely the most good of men would be prepared to fall from grace in order to save someone else. Truly *deity* is a cruel and manipulating being. Not to mention all the holy wars and regarding people as infidels!

And you know why I think this? Because religious people say that without the grace of *deity*, we would be cast into an age of darkness, lawlessness, and evil. Seriously, what? Without believing in *deity* we are going to be all animalistic and vile?

And all the while we are being selfish and trying to appease a cruel and wrathful creator by following doctrine? What is this? Where is the happiness in that? Is humanity fighting a losing battle, and are we all destined to the firey pits* because the only reason we truly believe is out of fear and lust for an eternal reward?

Man, the more I think about religion, the less sense it makes. Is everyone else seeing something I ain't? What's the point in religion if we fear our gods, and all go to hell because it's in our nature to focus on our selves?

Seriously. Someone explain to me how we're all not going to hell.

* Your torment may vary. See back of box for details.

Footnote: I guess I'd better explain my reasoning. Our selfishness is our survival instinct. We want to continue living, procreate and make our lives comfortable. In this way, we must think about ourselves first. We cannot stop thinking about ourselves like this any more than we can stop ourselves from wanting to not get killed. Everything we do is for a reason, and that reason is primarily to benefit us, even if it's just a small step up on the reputation ladder. Humans are incapable of true altruism, which religious doctrine states we must have. We have to look after number one, or our race will die out due to people dying for other people all the time.

Last edited by Khato; 4th July 2007 at 03:58 PM.
  #9  
Old 4th July 2007, 04:07 PM
Raain Raain is offline
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I'm sorry, but, I dunno. Is religion really a good topic? Because there are some people who're REALLY committed to God, and there're others that just refuse to believe it because of their "analysis" of the whole thing (God says ur sposed to believe like a child :P) But I mean, should religion/political discussion be banned from the forum or should i just shut up and not read these?

Oh! And this topic does say for Christians, and I think he wanted someone who believes for their opinion bmp, just saying. Not trying to be rude.
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Last edited by Raain; 4th July 2007 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Forgot something
  #10  
Old 4th July 2007, 04:17 PM
Khato Khato is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raain View Post
Oh! And this topic does say for Christians, and I think he wanted someone who believes for their opinion bmp, just saying. Not trying to be rude.
Really? I read it as "whether gaining was a sin for christians". oO; Shows how much I know about grammar : D

I was just putting in my 2c, just in case it helped.
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