On Being Ostracized

[WTFOMGwolfgang]

"There is no beast without cruelty"
- Nietzsche.

The next time you call, or you overhear others calling, someone antisocial or distraught, emo, depressive, etc. think about why they might be that way. A socially disappointing life maybe? Pushed to the edges of society like a broken CD flung under the bed. And it's even worthwhile to wonder why? It's self defeating to attempt to be cordial and socially hopeful when every attempt is greeted with rejection.

Think about examples of "weirdos" around you - the otakus, the goths, the emo kids, the nerds, the Satanists, the fat kids, the people who think they have ESP, etc. - and think about why they don't choose to associate with the mainstream or upper echelons of society. Most have tried at some point in their lives. However, due to a difference in preference in activities, clothing, or entertainment, they are found unfit and THEY are blamed for their reaction to a sense of rejection.

People who are "different" are not anti-social because they were born that way. Most are anti-social because every attempt to be social while still being true to themselves has resulted in failure. Lack of self-esteem isn't something that's inborn. Liking things not considered "the norm" isn't a result of low self-esteem. If all those called "jocks" and "preps" were to become the minority and they were excluded, their self-esteem wouldn't be very high either.

In a society that strives for all these "progressive" causes such as banishing sexism, racism, and homophobia from the world, people are still too sanctimonious to take a look at people of their own gender, race, and sexual orientation and try to treat them equally. You can't create a building on a foundation of toothpicks, and you can't bring about acceptance people despite psychological or genetic differences if you can't first bring about acceptance of people despite superficial differences.

[AFatChance]

I stopped at the "think about why they're emo" part, because...

A. I know people who dress the way they do and act the way they do, because they were dealt a shitty hand in life, yeah, but...

B. Most of those kids are just begging for attention. They get into the same bands, the same look, the same everything - call others conformists and the like and pout in corners cutting themselves to show people their scars. I have a friend who used to cut themself, but it was an addiction... a rush. Other people who do it, so others can see their scars are just big fat attention whores. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for some of these kids.

They just need to grow up.

[BigBellyBoi]

I stopped at the "think about why they're emo" part, because...

A. I know people who dress the way they do and act the way they do, because they were dealt a shitty hand in life, yeah, but...

B. Most of those kids are just begging for attention. They get into the same bands, the same look, the same everything - call others conformists and the like and pout in corners cutting themselves to show people their scars. I have a friend who used to cut themself, but it was an addiction... a rush. Other people who do it, so others can see their scars are just big fat attention whores. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for some of these kids.

They just need to grow up.

uhm, y dont u just STFU! cuz, it sounds like u dont know anything. they R NOT begging for attention. alot of them are really nice! and "show people their scars" ? uhm, most of them hide it on purpose thats y they wear wrist warmers/bands. the one's that do it for a rush, have problems, no offense to ur friend, really. but they do it cuz they make themselves feel better (not that it makes it right) so y dont u shut up cuz it seems like u dont know or seem to understand it at all :]

and to WTFOMGwolfgang:
i thought that was so true, people can be cruel to different people sometimes ;_;
thanx for posting that :D

[FatMike]

uhm, y dont u just STFU! cuz, it sounds like u dont know anything. they R NOT begging for attention. alot of them are really nice! and "show people their scars" ? uhm, most of them hide it on purpose thats y they wear wrist warmers/bands. the one's that do it for a rush, have problems, no offense to ur friend, really. but they do it cuz they make themselves feel better (not that it makes it right) so y dont u shut up cuz it seems like u dont know or seem to understand it at all :]
Sound Pretty Naive to me..
Its quite obvious that most of them are just scene kids, following it because its the "in" thing at the moment. Not many actually do cut, and yeah most emos are scene kids that are really just wanting attention. And well, no offense to those who do it but its a problem, I don't see how passing out due to blood loss on the floor of a bathroom really makes them feel better... besides, its hypocritical. Much in the same way as the fact that like every emo when I was still at school did it for the attention, and they were actually the popular ones really.

Give it like another year or two and it will be hardly seen as much, much in the same was as the whole Whigger thing went out of scene about a year or two ago as well as the whole group of those kids who liked rap-metal back in the early 2000s.

Nonetheless the rest of the groups that WTFOMGwolfgang actually mentioned are proper outcasts, so what was said is actually fairly true.
Besides, this community has quite a few emotionally screwed up people especially relating to high school pressures in relation to body image (which is a joke nontheless, some of you need to get some self esteem, self pride and grow a backbone) that I would have thought that any crap that may be taken from more "popular" kids would be just ignored anyway.

[atwa]

I can't respect kids who are deliberately emo. some of the trendiest, snobbiest, cliquiest kids I know are emo. Some are WORSE than mainstream. I find many of them to be more exclusive than the mainstream crowd.

[FatMike]

I can't respect kids who are deliberately emo. some of the trendiest, snobbiest, cliquiest kids I know are emo. They are WORSE than mainstream. I would rather not associate with them.
Exactly Right.
Though over where I live theres no real jock/prep or defined group of popular people in the high schools here, I generally find the ones that reject the most or tend to hate or not be nice to others the most are emo kids.

[buy more product]

Wow, the pious little post I didn't want to touch with a ten-foot pole has exploded, unprovoked by me, after I thought it had been safely buried.

[Elfstone]

Give it like another year or two and it will be hardly seen as much, much in the same was as the whole Whigger thing went out of scene about a year or two ago as well as the whole group of those kids who liked rap-metal back in the early 2000s.


I dunno bout the rest of you guys, but Whigger hasn't gone anywhere and is still quite prevalent (especially among middle schoolers, because we all know that suburban upper middle class kids of Massachusetts know all about living in the streets, yo. :-p)

As for this thread, I was hoping it was die, because these threads are never, well good for a forum. *sigh* I am not going to get into my whole "don't judge by what people dress like alone" speech, but instead I am going to hope that maybe, just MAYBE, we can all just get along.

Oh wait, I forgot, this is the real world, and that wont ever happen. Never mind.

[FatMike]

I dunno bout the rest of you guys, but Whigger hasn't gone anywhere and is still quite prevalent (especially among middle schoolers, because we all know that suburban upper middle class kids of Massachusetts know all about living in the streets, yo. :-p)
Guess it depends where you are.
Its all gone here, with the exception of some white trash communities.

[truth_be_told_1014]

I am going to hope that maybe, just MAYBE, we can all just get along.

Oh wait, I forgot, this is the real world, and that wont ever happen. Never mind.

Too right, I'm afraid. Yet perhaps an ever more unrealistic occurrence would be people just being themselves without having to feel like they need to change to adapt to some sort of social group for acceptance's sake. That's the fundamental problem.

[jackjackjack]

OK, allot do it for attention, some don't, but honestly most emo kids I know wear wrist bands so people can't see the scars, but still know that they're there. The emos I know were total preps a month ago, before that they were "reppin' da Ghetto". It's mostly a bunch of attention seeking posers.

However some people cut themselves for attention, then it turns into an addiction... it's just stupid.

But Depression is a serious issue which really has nothing to do with Emos

[Toddle]

I stopped at the "think about why they're emo" part, because...

A. I know people who dress the way they do and act the way they do, because they were dealt a shitty hand in life, yeah, but...

B. Most of those kids are just begging for attention. They get into the same bands, the same look, the same everything - call others conformists and the like and pout in corners cutting themselves to show people their scars. I have a friend who used to cut themself, but it was an addiction... a rush. Other people who do it, so others can see their scars are just big fat attention whores. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for some of these kids.

They just need to grow up.

I know some emo kids personally. Most don't cut. But the ones who do, they say they do it so that they can feel the pain to know that they are still alive. They don't do it often. Rarely, actually. Because they claim that sometimes they feel like they are the walking dead for some reason. I don't know how true it is, any of it, but I know that they don't cut much. Or at least not where any scars or scabs will show. But not everyone who cuts does it for attention. And a lot of emo kids do it because it's what's in right now. Not because they want attention. If you actually took the time to get to know more of them instead of just assuming (I'm assuming myself here that you just assume they are what you said that they are. I may well be 100% wrong), you'll learn that most of them aren't "attention whores" as you said. I'm not saying this to make any problems or anything. Just saying take a little time and get to know them, and maybe you'll feel a little differently about some of them. Get to know their real personalities.

OK,
But Depression is a serious issue which really has nothing to do with Emos

Very true. Depression and emo kids do not go hand in hand like people think. When I'm depressed I always get called emo. Then I calmly explain to them the ways I am not and how they don't go hand in hand like most people would think. I don't get depressed much anymore. Just a random very down day. I'm on meds now for it. But, yeah. Depression is a VERY serious issue, and should be helped as soon as possible. Emo kids just need to do what they do as long as it isn't hurting themselves or others. If they want to dress and act the way they do because it's a passing fad, let them. If they are cutting, they need to get help, and if they are cutting due to depression, they need serious help. But out of all the emo kids I know, two, maybe 3 need any help at all. All of the rest are doing it because it is a passing fad.

[/RAMBLING]

[AFatChance]

I know some emo kids personally. Most don't cut. But the ones who do, they say they do it so that they can feel the pain to know that they are still alive. They don't do it often. Rarely, actually. Because they claim that sometimes they feel like they are the walking dead for some reason. I don't know how true it is, any of it, but I know that they don't cut much. Or at least not where any scars or scabs will show. But not everyone who cuts does it for attention. And a lot of emo kids do it because it's what's in right now. Not because they want attention. If you actually took the time to get to know more of them instead of just assuming (I'm assuming myself here that you just assume they are what you said that they are. I may well be 100% wrong), you'll learn that most of them aren't "attention whores" as you said. I'm not saying this to make any problems or anything. Just saying take a little time and get to know them, and maybe you'll feel a little differently about some of them. Get to know their real personalities.



I do know a lot of kids who cut. They basically all do it so others can see. I'm not saying that all do it for attention, but enough to say "most." I know them. I was once one of them.

I also never claimed that all emo kids are attention whore cutters.

[WTFOMGwolfgang]

and to WTFOMGwolfgang:
i thought that was so true, people can be cruel to different people sometimes ;_;
thanx for posting that

That ^ was my point. I wasn't talking about emos or any group in particular.

I met a girl who said she had problems with talking to people and she was self-conscious of her body because of how people made fun of her in elementary school even though she looks completely different now. That might have been 10 years ago but it's still effecting her behaviour. I got made fun of, was told the whole "sticks and stones" spiel, and I'm still rather self-conscious over the same things I was made fun of for.

[someperson]

I tend to jokingly judge someone before I get to know them, then I get to know them and make better judgments.

There are osme people who act depressed for nothing.

There are some people who CLAIM to have atrocious living conditions solely for the sake of garnering attention.

But there are people who are depressed for something, and do have atrocious living conditions.

[Pwim]

A socially disappointing life maybe? Pushed to the edges of society like a broken CD flung under the bed. And it's even worthwhile to wonder why? It's self defeating to attempt to be cordial and socially hopeful when every attempt is greeted with rejection.

That's a really good concise description of the social difficulties experienced by practically every minority group in existence.

I particularly like how it could be applied to autistics, most of whom don't naturally develop social skills and have to specifically make an effort to learn them. That depends on people being patient and tolerant, which often they're not. It's quite disheartening to know you have to climb up from the bottom, while everybody else is taking the elevator, got on some time before you and doesn't understand that you can't. Even more so when nobody will fill you in on the latest from the elevator, because you're the vagrant who takes the back stairs.

I don't think it applies to emos etc, like has been said. They tend to just be people jumping on a bandwagon.

You can't create a building on a foundation of toothpicks
I'm sorry; I have to take exception; They might actually be quite a good foundation in some climates; seems similar to the wooden piles they use in Venice. Maybe for model villages. :)

[Raain]

Chance - Hmmm sorry to say, but you should probably read the whole thing before voicing your opinion so you can get the whole feel of what the person is trying to say. Because then we start this whole confusion and all the arguments because everyone didn't read the entire post. That is all :P

Wolfgang - In my opinion, that post was marvelous and was a very good analysis of society. *bows* :3 Too bad no person on this earth can be accepting of everthing

[WTFOMGwolfgang]

Chance - Hmmm sorry to say, but you should probably read the whole thing before voicing your opinion so you can get the whole feel of what the person is trying to say. Because then we start this whole confusion and all the arguments because everyone didn't read the entire post. That is all :P

Wolfgang - In my opinion, that post was marvelous and was a very good analysis of society. *bows* :3 Too bad no person on this earth can be accepting of everthing

Nobody has to accept everything, but people need to realise that not everyone is going to be the same as them and they don't have to embrace everyone, just treat them civil.

[Raain]

right, i was bringing up a different point but yes, ur correct wolfgang.

[AFatChance]

That ^ was my point. I wasn't talking about emos or any group in particular.

I met a girl who said she had problems with talking to people and she was self-conscious of her body because of how people made fun of her in elementary school even though she looks completely different now. That might have been 10 years ago but it's still effecting her behaviour. I got made fun of, was told the whole "sticks and stones" spiel, and I'm still rather self-conscious over the same things I was made fun of for.

I totally agree with that point. Not only have I faced ridicule for being the fat one, but also, for being raised an atheist. It sucked and it still hurts.

I just get annoyed when emos sing aloud about how much their lives suck and I know a lot who do. If it sucks so much, turn the anger into something constructive like art or music or written word. It's better than constant self-pitying.

[WTFOMGwolfgang]

I totally agree with that point. Not only have I faced ridicule for being the fat one, but also, for being raised an atheist. It sucked and it still hurts.

I have confidence about some things. My opinions about religion, politics, nature, are pretty unwavering. I wish I could be so sure about myself but I'm working on that.

It's odd that I could argue my stance on abortion and defend my thoughts on religion until the cows come home, but I can't argue my own self worth.